Avery Wooten, MS4 – What They Don’t Tell You About Medical School and the Match

Fourth-year medical student and anesthesiology residency applicant Avery Wooten joins Dr. Michael Jerkins for a candid conversation about navigating medical school on the road to the Match. Avery reflects on her path from UNC Chapel Hill to UCSF, the mentorship that helped shape her journey, and how social media became an unexpected tool for transparency and guidance.

She shares how she balances clinical rotations, content creation, and interview prep, while offering insight into the modern residency application process from virtual interviews to the power of personal storytelling. The discussion also explores the financial pressures facing today’s medical students, shifting priorities around work-life balance, and why authenticity matters more than ever in the Match.

What does it really take to stand out as a residency applicant today? And how can mentorship—both online and offline—help demystify the process for the next generation?

Avery closes with reflections on burnout, humor, and staying human while navigating one of the most demanding seasons of medical training.

Here are 5 main takeaways from the discussion with Avery:

1. Balancing Medical School and Personal Life

Avery emphasizes the importance of maintaining a balance between medical school and personal life. She shares her strategy of using to-do lists to manage her tasks efficiently, despite not being a morning person.

2. The Role of Mentorship

Avery highlights the impact of mentorship on her medical journey, particularly through the Chancellor of Science Scholarship Program. This program provided her with valuable guidance and support, which she now aims to offer to others through her social media platforms.

3. Navigating the Residency Application Process

Avery discusses the shift to virtual interviews and the importance of personal storytelling in standing out during the residency application process. She emphasizes the need for thorough preparation and authenticity.

4. Financial Challenges for Medical Students

Avery addresses the financial challenges faced by current medical students, including the rising cost of living and student debt. She contrasts this with the experiences of previous generations and highlights the evolving motivations of younger medical students.

5. The Importance of Humor in Medical School

Avery highlights humor as an essential tool for coping with the stresses and challenges of medical school. She explains that humor helps to create a supportive and positive environment among medical students and residents, fostering camaraderie and resilience.

Transcript

Avery Wooten:
I did my mock interview with my mom. I think you have to choose someone who is scarier than any program director, and for me, that is my mom.

Michael Jerkins:
Welcome back to another episode of The Podcast for Doctors (By Doctors). I’m Dr. Michael Jerkins. Today is a special episode commemorating—discussing, maybe even celebrating—I don’t know—the time-tested tradition of the Match.

That’s why I’m super excited to have a fourth-year medical student with us today. Not just any fourth-year medical student, but student doctor Avery Wooten. She’s been very public about her journey through medical school and the Match process on social media, so I’m really interested to hear her perspective on how things are going, what the process has been like, and how she feels about entering residency.

It’s been a little while since I went through the Match, so it’s great to hear from the younger generation and get an updated sense of what things are like now. Without further ado, let’s hop into our interview.

Today on The Podcast for Doctors (By Doctors), we’re joined by student doctor Avery Wooten, a fourth-year medical student at the University of California, San Francisco, applying for anesthesiology residency. She graduated from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill with a BS in quantitative biology and a minor in chemistry, where she was a Chancellor’s Science Scholar—which is pretty impressive.

Beyond medicine, Avery loves playing volleyball, dancing, and strategy games. She’s deeply passionate about mentoring the next generation of physicians, which she does through her social media platforms and as a medical school coach with Leland. Avery uses her online presence to demystify the medical journey, share advice for aspiring doctors, and highlight the human side of medical training. Welcome to the podcast—I’m really excited to talk to you.

I mentioned in the intro that I went through the Match a little while ago, so it’s exciting to talk to someone going through it now. You’re balancing a lot. My first question is: how do you even start your day with all of these responsibilities?

AW:
Thank you. I start my day like everyone else, honestly. I’m not really a morning person, so when I started medical school, I had to force myself to become one. I don’t have a special morning routine, but I am big on to-do lists. I always have a list of tasks for the week, and in the morning I look at it and think about the most efficient way to get everything done.

MJ:
That makes a lot of sense. On clinical rotations, are you usually one of the first people there? That can be tough if you’re not a morning person.

AW:
Usually, yes. I like being prepared, and I feel more confident when I get there early. It gives me time to pre-round and feel ready going into rounds, especially early on in rotations. So yes, I was often there pretty early.

MJ:
I remember my general surgery rotation in third year. After the first day, I realized I needed to get there earlier. I made it a personal goal to beat the intern, which was maybe a little competitive, but it helped because I obviously didn’t know anything yet.

AW:
Right?

MJ:
Tell us a little about your journey. You do a great job demystifying medical education for people on the outside. Why did that become so important to you?

AW:
When I was applying to medical school, I was part of the Chancellor’s Science Scholarship Program. It was designed to help underrepresented minorities and women earn advanced STEM degrees. I had incredible mentorship—both assigned mentors and near-peer mentors who had recently graduated and started MD or PhD programs.

That support really helped me go straight through and be successful in my application process, and I wanted to give back. Social media started because people in the program kept messaging me asking how I did it and what the timeline looked like. I got tired of answering individually, so I started filming videos and sending links. That’s how it all started.

MJ:
How did that turn into a broader social media presence?

AW:
It started with pre-med advice, mostly Q&A. People would ask questions or leave comments, and I’d reply with videos about different parts of the pre-med journey. Over time, I realized people really valued seeing what medical school actually looks like, so I shifted toward documenting my journey—clinical learning, Step exams, and day-in-the-life content.

MJ:
It’s wild how little people outside of medicine understand the process. You go home for the holidays and people ask how school is, even when you’re in residency.

AW:
Exactly.

MJ:
If you weren’t in medical school right now, what do you think you’d be doing instead?

AW:
I get this question a lot, and I answer it differently every time. Probably one of three things. I’ve always been an athlete, so maybe professional volleyball or dance. I still play volleyball competitively and dance for fun. If I were doing something more practical, I think I’d be a motivational speaker, because that’s already a big part of what I do on social media—encouraging people through the process of becoming a physician.

MJ:
I love that—and being a doctor actually lets you do a lot of those things anyway. Looking back now, what stereotypes about med students or residents are actually true?

AW:
We will do anything for free stuff. That is absolutely true. Put free food at an event and we’ll be there. Give us a gift card for filling out a survey and we’re in.

MJ:
That’s very true. At your program, is food first come, first serve?

AW:
Yes, first come, first serve.

MJ:
In my med school, it always felt like residents ate first. I didn’t love that. But as a resident, when I showed up late and there was no food, I understood it better.

Can you share a moment when it really hit you—like, “Wow, I’m actually doing this. I’m going to be a doctor”?

AW:
A lot of hands-on procedural moments stand out. One was during my OB-GYN rotation when I delivered a baby and sutured vaginal lacerations afterward. I remember thinking, “Wow, I actually know how to do something.” I really enjoyed working with the midwives because they were excited to teach and gave us a lot of hands-on experience.

MJ:
That’s amazing. I had similar experiences in trauma surgery where you realize you can actually apply what you’ve learned.

In your videos, you’re funny and engaging. Have you used humor during stressful rotations?

AW:
All the time. Our whole team used humor, especially on internal medicine. We’d play music in the workroom, quiz each other before rounds, and even make bingo cards for attendings who repeated the same phrases or gestures.

MJ:
I feel like I’ve been on the other end of that bingo card.

There’s a lot of talk about differences between generations of doctors. Do you think younger med students are less motivated, more motivated, or just motivated differently?

AW:
I think we’re motivated differently. With the rising cost of living, growing up during a pandemic, and the difficulty of achieving financial stability—even with a doctor’s salary—we care a lot about flexibility with our time. Especially without generational wealth, things like buying a home can feel out of reach.

MJ:
That makes a lot of sense. Financial pressures are very different now.

When I interviewed, everything was in person and expensive. Now that interviews are mostly virtual, how do students stand out?

AW:
I don’t think it’s harder—if anything, it’s easier. There’s more access to information and interview prep. Social media has also made people more comfortable sharing their personal stories, which is really how you stand out.

MJ:
How do you get a sense of program culture when you’re not physically there?

AW:
That part is hard. Virtual Q&As and tours help, and many residents are generous with their time and willing to talk one-on-one. But it’s definitely harder without being there in person.

MJ:
Do you see a lot of classmates doing second looks?

AW:
Yes, usually in January. A lot of people do second looks to get a better feel for the culture.

Michael Jerkins:
So, in this preparation for the Match and residency, what is one piece of advice or kind of preconceived notion about this time that you think is actually totally wrong, if any?

I think a question I get a lot is about what type of experience is going to be most important for your residency application. Is it research? Is it volunteering? Leadership experiences? And I really think there’s no one experience that’s going to set you apart from others. Ultimately, it’s about how passionate you are about the things you’re doing and how well you’re able to articulate that.

For example, I listed my social media as one of my most meaningful activities, and that’s actually what I get the most questions about. I’ll also get research questions and questions about mentorship in general. But whatever you’re passionate about, and whatever you’re talking about through your activities and your personal statement, that’s what programs are going to be excited about.

MJ:
That makes sense. Walk us through your interview preparation. What does residency interview prep look like for you?

I definitely did a mock interview before my first interview. If I had had a longer break, I probably would’ve done another one. But honestly, I used all of my early interviews as mock interviews for the later ones.

I did my mock interview with my mom. I think you have to choose someone who’s scarier than any program director, and for me, that’s my mom. She’s very serious about preparation. Back in elementary school, she used to have me practice my presentations again and again until they were perfect, even in third grade.

AW:
So she is the person you want to do a mock interview with. Definitely practice like it’s the real thing. I also did a lot of research on programs through their websites, videos, or other materials they sent, because you really want to have a very specific reason for why you’re interested in that program.

I also talked to medical students who rotated at those programs or residents I knew to get a good sense of what the rotations are like and what it feels like to practice in that environment. As far as preparing for questions, there are different resources. The AAMC has practice interview questions, and the ASA has anesthesia-specific questions on their website. I would shuffle through questions, randomize them, and practice a few each day.

MJ:
That’s great. What a resource your mom was. That’s amazing. What has surprised you most about the residency interview process?

AW:
Some things have surprised me positively and negatively. One positive is the interview format. In medical school interviews, you might have two one-hour interviews. In residency, at least in anesthesia so far, I’ve had a lot of short interviews, like six 15-minute interviews. I enjoy that because you get to talk to a lot of different people and really get a sense of the culture.

The days are longer than I expected, though. They pack a lot in. You might attend morning report or noon conference during the interview day. There’s usually a Q&A with residents and a 30-minute to one-hour presentation from the program director. You can end up being on the hook for six hours, and while there are breaks, it can be exhausting.

MJ:
That is a long time to be on Zoom or Microsoft Teams. In that residency interview setting, how can applicants best communicate their fit with a program, especially virtually?

AW:
First and foremost, be honest. Highlight the things about the program that genuinely resonate with you. It’s obvious when someone hasn’t done much research and says something like the program’s research strength is their favorite part, even though they’ve never done research. That looks suspicious.

Second, be very specific. Draw on personal experiences, classmates’ experiences at that site, or conversations with residents. Learn their specific reasons for choosing that program. Anything you can do to show you understand the program beyond what’s on the website really helps.

MJ:
Do people still recommend sending thank-you notes after interviews?

AW:
I hate to say it, but yes. I think it’s very performative. Of course, I’m grateful for the opportunity, but you have to be strategic and make sure you’re not sending the same generic thank-you note to everyone.

I would still write them unless a program specifically says, “You can thank us here, don’t write us a note.” That does happen sometimes, and I really appreciate those programs.

MJ:
You’re right. It’s tough to write that many thank-you notes and make them sound authentic. And the people receiving them know. This whole process is very different from when I went through it, before COVID. How do you see the residency interview and application process evolving over the next four to five years?

AW:
I hope it stays mostly virtual. People seem to enjoy it for convenience and for financial reasons. Flying to interviews is expensive, and virtual interviews make scheduling much easier.

I think they’re still tweaking the signaling process. It’s very new, and each year there are small changes with gold versus silver signals and how many applicants get. Programs don’t want to be someone’s 40th backup choice, and applicants benefit from being more strategic and spending less money applying so broadly.

MJ:
That’s the craziest part to me—how much money this process costs. If you haven’t gone through it, you don’t realize how expensive it is just to advance your medical career. I’ve done the math before, looking at how much debt graduating classes take on just from residency applications and the interest that accrues. It’s wild.

AW:
I get it.

MJ:
It’s all the things you don’t think about.

AW:
Exactly. I expected to pay for Step exams and applications, but even things like paying tolls to cross bridges for rotations or gas money add up quickly.

MJ:
And then you get to residency and sometimes you have to pay to park.

AW:
Even as a medical student, you sometimes have to pay to park.

MJ:
Do you ask about things like that in interviews? Do you get that granular?

AW:
Yes. In resident-only Q&A sessions, they’ll often say no one with decision-making power is there and you can ask anything. That’s where you ask questions like, “Is the food good?” “Do we pay for parking?” “What’s the meal stipend like?” You usually get much more honest answers.

MJ:
I appreciate that. Let me ask you this. If you could send a message to all pre-meds looking to get into medical school next fall, what would your advice be?

AW:
Once you’re in medical school, it doesn’t need to be your whole life. Take care of yourself, but also be prepared to work hard because nothing worth having comes easy.

I think sometimes people see me enjoying myself in medical school on social media and think I’m misrepresenting it as easy. I’ve never said medical school is easy. But I do believe it can be challenging and enjoyable. Part of why I enjoy medicine is because of that challenge.

MJ:
What is one thing you would change about medical school if you could?

AW:
I would change the game medical students have to play around not asking to leave rotations. We have to pretend that we wouldn’t rather be at home than in the hospital, and I think that’s kind of ridiculous. Even if you love your job, you still want to go home after a hard day’s work.

I think there’s no need to pretend we’d rather be in the hospital than at home. A lot of times your attending or resident just forgets about you, and you’re sitting there. I’ve had plenty of moments where someone comes in hours later and says, “Oh, Avery, you’re still here? Get out of here.” But you can’t ask to go home, so I think we should just end that game.

MJ:
How do you end it though? You’re right, that’s exactly what happens. I’ve been that person who forgets. But how would you actually change it?

AW:
There’s this expectation, or pressure, that if you ask to leave, you’ll be seen as not interested. Even saying, “Hey, my work’s done, can I head out?” can feel risky. I think we have to take the pressure off.

I’ve known people who got bad evaluations for asking to go home even when they had finished all their tasks for the day. So I think it starts with changing the culture around always having to perform.

MJ:
The way I used to ask, and appreciated being asked, was, “What else do you need me to do?” Then you can say, “No, you’re good, you can go.” Most residents have been there. They were med students once. Some want to put you through the same awkwardness they experienced, but most of us are like, “Yeah, you’re good.”

AW:
I use that one a lot.

MJ:
The worst is when someone says, “You can head out if you want.”

AW:
Right, because now what do I do with that? I do want to go, but I don’t want you to know that I want to go.

MJ:
Exactly. Now that you brought it up, I suddenly feel like I should stay and watch you work in the workroom. That’s such a funny dynamic. It’s like when your parents say, “You can go, but I’ll be disappointed if you do.”

Alright, I hate to keep going back to this, but do you think the younger generation of doctors is less financially incentivized to pursue medicine than older generations?

AW:
Definitely yes, less incentivized, and yet we’re still doing it. I think we’re motivated by our love for the field. Financially, it’s becoming harder to get loans just to attend medical school. There are a lot of stats showing that wealth is a bigger predictor of who becomes a doctor than almost anything else.

Money doesn’t go as far as it used to, and there’s a lot of debt to dig your way out of. And yet people are still really excited about this field. Even knowing there aren’t enough residency spots and that you can go through all of this and still not match, people are still working toward that goal.

MJ:
That’s such a good point. Twenty years ago, the debt-to-income ratio and return on investment were much higher for physicians than they are now, and yet we still have tons of people applying to med school and trying to match.

It does make you wonder how many older-generation physicians would still do this if they knew the financial reality was different. Hopefully I don’t get too many angry emails, but I agree with you.

We’re going to wrap this up with some rapid fire. It’s not really rapid, and it’s more true-or-false statements. I’ll say a statement, and you tell me if you think it’s true or false.

AW:
Got it.

MJ:
You can elaborate if you want.

AW:
Perfect.

MJ:
True or false: burnout is inevitable in medical school.

AW:
True, but I think it’s hard to avoid ever feeling burnout at some point. There will be a tough rotation or an exhausting block, but your medical school experience doesn’t have to be defined by burnout.

MJ:
True or false: hobbies and extracurriculars matter more than grades when programs decide who to interview.

AW:
False. I think they matter equally. You do have to prove you’re academically capable. Grades mean different things now with pass/fail systems, but evaluations and honors on rotations still matter. At the same time, it’s equally important to have activities you’re passionate about.

MJ:
True or false: humor is essential in med school.

AW:
True. I wouldn’t have gotten through rotations without humor. I actually rotated with one of my closest friends, and that made such a difference.

MJ:
It really does. The gunner mentality still exists, unfortunately. I remember a rotation where one student co-signed another student’s note and added an addendum on a different patient so the attending would see it. That was next-level behavior.

Hopefully I didn’t give anyone ideas.

AW:
We definitely don’t need that.

MJ:
True or false: the most competitive specialties are the ones with the worst work-life balance.

AW:
False. For some specialties maybe, but dermatology is always competitive and they seem to be living life. Anesthesia is getting more competitive for similar lifestyle reasons. So overall, I’d say false.

MJ:
Yeah, derm is definitely an exception. Are there others?

AW:
PM&R and radiology are becoming more competitive as people catch on to the lifestyle. Some surgical subspecialties are competitive because of limited spots rather than lifestyle.

MJ:
True or false: mentors influence your match outcome more than your CV.

AW:
That one could go either way. I’m a big believer in networking, but you still have to back it up with your credentials. A mentor can get your foot in the door, but you still have to prove yourself. I think they’re equally important.

MJ:
That’s why I made it tough. Last one: true or false, virtual interviews level the playing field for applicants.

AW:
Definitely true. People say it’s harder to convey energy through a screen, but Gen Z grew up on screens. We’re comfortable with it.

The benefits outweigh the negatives. There’s no financial barrier from travel, you have access to information, you can keep notes nearby, and you don’t have to take on more debt just to interview.

MJ:
That’s huge. I always wrap up with one final question: what is one thing you’ve changed your mind about recently?

AW:
I used to think TV was better than reading, but I’ve been reading a lot more during my fourth year and remembered how much I love it. A great book is better than a great TV show. I’d rather watch a bad TV show than read a bad book, but a 10 out of 10 book beats a 10 out of 10 show every time.

MJ:
Do audiobooks count as reading?

AW:
Not for me. I tune out audio without realizing it. I need a physical book. You read things in your own tone and voice, and you give characters a different life than you do with an audiobook.

MJ:
Alright, then what’s the best medical TV show you’ve watched? Everyone says there’s one I still haven’t seen, and they say it’s the most accurate.

Avery Wooten:
The Pit. You’ve got to watch The Pit.

It’s really good, and they still make it interesting. I think it’s hard to balance being an accurate medical TV show while also catering to a non-medical audience, and they do that really well.

Michael Jerkins:
Alright, I guess I have to go watch it now. Where can people find you and follow your journey through medical education?

AW:
I’m on both TikTok and Instagram. On Instagram, I’m aves.v.ms4. TikTok is the same, but with an underscore at the end because someone stole my username.

MJ:
What are you going to do when you’re a resident and you’re not an MS4 anymore?

AW:
It’s going to change, but I’m not going to tell you what it’s going to change to—because you’re going to steal it.

MJ:
I won’t. Secret’s safe with me. We won’t tell anybody. Well, Student Doctor Avery Wooten, best of luck on the Match. I’m sure you’re going to do great. Thank you for sharing your time with us and sharing your journey with everyone out on social. We’ll talk soon.

AW:
Sounds good. Thank you for having me.

MJ:

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